Page 144 of 282
Page 145 of 282 Yup. Yup. That sounds good. I think there's a couple of the things that, uh, that I think could be really interesting to, to look into.
Marc (02:14):
All right.
Interviewee 2a (02:15):
So one of thing is that we have been live for, I can't remember almost two years now. Um, and, um, and that time. Has anything changed? Um, that's, that's interesting to look at. So I think that that would be very difficult because you don't have the historic data, but you could, you could talk to people and is there more awareness, do women feel more empowered? ehh things like that. And then it's also how do you create impact? So right now the Jabra women's network is, and based on some webinars and some people attending network groups, and I'm guessing some of these women around that business is not really feeling that this, there's been a lot of impact. It's like, eh, it's nice with webinars. Do you hear from different people on how to keep cope and different, uh, self reflecting things, Um, but what is it exactly that can create an impact?
How do we, how do we make sure that this empowerment goes out to everyone?
Interviewee 2a (03:46):
I think that that would be really interesting myself. I think it's especially, we need to share some data. We need to have more focus on diversity as well. But I think it also in, in their personal relationships. So when you look at, um, when people move up into the organization, it's always everyone says it's about knowing the right people, either having a mentor or a sponsor or someone who can recommend you, especially as a woman, um, or within other groups. Um, in terms of diversity. And I think that could be true, how do we then create impact? How do we do that? So is the network groups enough and when you have a sponsor or a mentor and that mentor or a sponsor needs to be in the right places as well. And how do we make sure that person is there? How can that person recommend your role? Uh, yeah. Help me move forward in any way.
Marc (04:52):
So are the sponsors and mentors a part of the project you're working on?
Interviewee 2a (04:57):
No. Theyre not, Um, so right now in the Jabra women's network, um, we, we have the network group set up.
Um, so I think there's around a hundred and 150 people attending those around the globe. And then it's a monthly call where you can call in. And I know some of the groups works very well. And some groups are not working well at all. I had one of the groups not working well at all, so I'm just, I'm moving into a new group or we have a first meeting on Thursday I think. So that'll be really interesting. But yeah, I think those, those are really interesting things because the Jabra women's network is about empowering women and creating impact.
Marc (05:48):
All right. Yeah. So its the sponsors that you talk about is that, they're not a part of the Jabra women's network?
Interviewee 2a (05:56):
No, no.
Page 146 of 282 Interviewee 2a (05:58):
There is no sponsors, no mentors. But I think that's something HR is looking into.
Marc (06:04):
Okay. Okay. Okay. All right. Yeah, I think there actually some really good angles that you are definitely for going about, especially as far as I understand, it's about, you know, really looking into how you can create greater impact and actually see if you're actually doing any noticeable impact.
Interviewee 2a (06:25):
Exactly. Yeah, exactly.
Barbara (06:27):
And how to measure that impact as well.
Interviewee 2a (06:29):
Exactly. So of course one thing is you can measure it on data. You can see there's more female leaders, but that could also be due to many other different things. So it could be that if we have one female leader, you tend to maybe hire more females and then slowly decreasing. But then that has nothing to do with the Jarba women's network.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yeah, there's a lot of variables, but I think it, I think that there would be alot of good approaches and direction.
Maybe. I know hiring a lot of leaders that are women and stuff, maybe a little too longitudinal for our.. So I mean our study just going to be like, eh, I think we have three, four months and a half months to do it. So it might be a little short time to to see if that has any real, you know, impact in that direction. But I think we could definitely try to look into to see how you could maybe engage more people and the impact and also see what the impact there truly is just by doing maybe some qualitative interviews.
Interviewee 2a (07:42):
Yeah. And if they is any impact at all? Yeah. What does it take to create the impact then?
Barbara (07:50):
Yeah. Yup, yup.
Marc (07:52):
I think, I think that that's a good approach at least. I don't know or Remember what, what, what are youre position at Jabra?
Interviewee 2a (08:01):
Oh, sorry. In the Jabra women's network im handling all the data, but we don't have any.. (laughing) but im Really pushing HR to get this data.
Marc (08:16):
right. And, what kind of data is that?
Page 147 of 282 Interviewee 2a (08:19):
just simple facts on, um, how many women are we in the organization? How many female leaders do we have in each level? Um, do we have equal pay? Things like that.
Barbara (08:32):
Okay. And how, may I ask, how long has it been since you started pushing for it? Is it since the sort of the network?
Interviewee 2a (08:39):
yeah since the start and so HR do have some of this data and we implemented a new HR system last year.
And um, with that you can get more of this data because before it was very first within the business.
Barbara (08:56):
Is it a work today that you guys are using as well?
Interviewee 2a (08:59):
Yeah, exactly.
Barbara (09:00):
Okay.
Interviewee 2a (09:00):
Yeah. So it, it's possible to get some of the data but, for example, if you look at managerial level, you can go after a title and say, okay so next is how many managers you have within this and this. But the levels are very difficult to sort of assess. So that is the next big thing HR is doing. To sort of map everyone into where are you in sort of a organizational hierarchy. Cause right now you could maybe be a manager and all your peers would be directors. And then nets are interesting because shouldn't you be a director then as well? or it could be the other way around.
Barbara (09:47):
Yeah. Okay. Makes sense.
Marc (09:51):
But the, the, um, another question about the Jabra women's network is it, is it only, is it only a like internal in the Jabra, or?
Interviewee 2a (10:01):
it is, yeah, it's only GN audio.
Marc (10:04):
Yeah. Yeah. GN audo, Okay. Okay. All right. And how many, how many members do you think you have? Like approximately, you mentioned it before?
Interviewee 2a (10:13):
Page 148 of 282 Oh yeah. I think that's around hundred and a hundred or 150 and sending the network groups. But we don't go by a sort of a members count. So are you a women? You're automatically signed up for emails. We've been honest. And then we also tried to push it to men and that could be a different angle to put into it as well. How much can you do alone as women, probably not so much. So you need the men involved as well.
Marc (10:48):
Oh, alright. Right. Cause right now like we, the next step we want to do right now. Um, yeah, basically to figure out a problem formulation or a research question that we can take on and then use it to like figure out how we gonna approach the whole thesis. Um, so I think it's really nice that you suggested these angles.
Interviewee 2a (11:18):
I hope it helps.
Barbara (11:21):
It definitely does.
Interviewee 2a (11:25):
Have you read, um, there's a McKinsey report that's called women in the workplace. Um, and they have published it for the past five years, every year. That's really interesting to read and I think it builds on some of the same challenges that we are facing. Um, GN audio.
Marc (11:51):
What did you call it?
Barbara (11:52):
I already wrote it down. It's women in the workplace, right?
Interviewee 2a (11:55):
Yep. Yep. And then there's also a book, which is a professor from CBS who has written it, I can't remember what it's called. I'll just see. I have it here. I don't know if it's in English, but its a Danish book. Called “ledelse af køn” Um, it's [Author], I can just write it to you.
Barbara (12:33):
Thank you.
Interviewee 2a (12:35):
That's a very interesting book as well, I hope you can get it in, in English it might be a bit difficult.
Marc (12:44):
We'll try, but Marc is a native!
Interviewee 2a (12:45):
No but that's really interesting because it has a very, a lot of good points on all the challenges that we are facing.
Page 149 of 282 Barbara (13:03):
Fantastic. Can I ask, just out of curiosity, is there intentions or plans or whatnot to expand this also into GN hearing?
Interviewee 2a (13:16):
Right now I don't know if there is, I think everyone, I've heard from a couple of people from GN hearing that they would like to have something similar, but I think it also, someone needs to initiate it in a startup. Um, and I think because it's every woman is really busy. It is difficult. Even though a lot of people think this is a really good idea and then signing up for things like network meetings, so things like that. It's challenging because then you have another meeting and then what should you prioritize and then people tend to prioritize the work, very understandable and um, then I think it sort of drowns a bit.
Marc (14:04):
Yeah. Because the women's network is, is only like a.. what can you say.. a spare time thing?.
Interviewee 2a (14:13):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc (14:15):
There's no one like employed full full time on it?
Speaker 1 (14:18):
no, no one is employed for it.
Marc (14:20):
No. Okay.
Interviewee 2a (14:21):
And I think that's also maybe one of the problems with it. People don't understand what is exactly the value.
Getting a really nice network out of it. And then yeah, having a group you can discuss your issues with.
Marc (14:39):
Yeah. Yeah. For sure. All right. But they would also be a good, a good point and a good angle. What is the actual value of yeah the network, cause I think it interesting based on the theories as well.
Barbara (14:55):
Yeah. A lot.
Interviewee 2a (14:57):
That sounds good.
Barbara (14:59):
Yes. This is exciting.
Page 150 of 282 Interviewee 2a (15:03):
Yeah, no it is. It is, it's a very exciting topic. I said lots of things that you can do and I think just understanding fully what is it you see, I think the book I just recommended, gets to the bottom of that and it looks into biases a lot and I think many of the things that we see as challenges are just due to biases.
Barbara (15:30):
Yup. All right. I understand. I also read that in theory as well, so yeah. It's not, not fun to see it in the real world.
Interviewee 2a (15:41):
No, I I remember coming, I've also studied at CBS and then when I finished, um, I was employed here and I just, I remember being at CBS, I thought, okay, everything is equal. It's just the women's own fault. They could just negotiate better or put their hand up for promotions or things like that. But then the real world, it's not a, not as easy.
Marc (16:08):
Okay.
Barbara (16:10):
All right. So that's why we're going to work on this.
Interviewee 2a (16:12):
Yeah, definitely.
Marc (16:15):
Yeah. But I hope you wouldn't mind if we yeah. Contact you again?
Interviewee 2a (16:20):
Not at all. Just, um, yeah, you are welcome to, uh, to book me any time my calendar is updated.
Barbara (16:26):
Fantastic.
Marc (16:27):
Great. Cause I think this is plenty for now. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Yeah, this gives us a. lot for sure. And yeah. So you should be hearing from us again once we have a more defined problem statement or maybe if options, more options of a research question so you can also see what would match better with our objective.
Marc (16:50):
And if it makes sense.
Page 151 of 282 Interviewee 2a (16:50):
Yeah that sounds really good!
Barbara (16:50):
Fantastic!
Interviewee 2a (16:55):
Good luck with it.
Barbara (16:56):
Thank you. Thanks. Have a great day.
Interviewee 2a (17:01):
Thank you, you too. Bye bye.
APPENDIX 6C - INTERVIEWEE 3A Barbara (00:04):
All right. So I've started recording right now. Um, so just as we mentioned in the email before, just to give you a general overview, we are, uh, studying, uh, organization strategy and leadership as our mastery program. And that means that we're doing a lot of different subjects with regards to organizational change and sense making in the organization. And there was also a couple of elective subjects that we've taken that have mentioned diversity in the workplace and its importance and how to manage it and so on and so forth.
So all of that comes together as our interest to build a thesis project. And right now we are in the very early stages of it in which we're trying to understand how to use a case study and which series to combine and so on. But we saw a lot of potential in the network and yeah, we have previously reached out to [Anonymous], uh, and to, um, [Anonymous], um, who have both been very insightful in terms of what the Jabra women network is and also what current problems may be. And basically the stock has just to get a little bit of your view on how things are at the moment. And of course we have a lot of things in mind as to what problems, uh, what research question we would write, but we are open to listen to listening to your side and seeing if there's a pressing issue that you think already exists that of course it's not only going to help us learn but also help the, the network, um, improve,
Interviewee 3a (01:42):
right. Um, so I would say that I think there are different views in terms of how the network could support female employees with Jabra. Depending on region. From what I've heard from my colleagues is that it seems as though North America is more advanced in terms of creating change or transforming. And this is North America as a whole, not necessarily just Jabra or GN audio, but Northern America is more advanced when it comes to talking about, um, women in the it or technology workforce, uh, in this region. So, you know, the, the challenges are the same. However, we're further along the way to creating change and in North America, um, uh, what I would say is that in North America there is absolutely more support now when it comes from the leadership team down. And again, I'm talking across companies not necessarily JWN or Jabra there's more support to help women, um, elevate themselves within the organization.
Interviewee 3a (03:24):
Page 152 of 282 And with that, what, um, North America is doing is also encouraging millennials to take those steps up and having voices, having conversations to help try to create that change. So it's kind of like, um, a top down, bottom up effect. And so that the middle layer can start seeing some fruition and transformation and encouragement. Um, I would say that females, um, early in career to middle career are still a little hesitant about conversations around what they feel needs to change. And I think that really interesting considering that I think this, the topic around supporting women has been around now, gosh, for over five years. Like this whole trend, you know, or transformation it started quite some time ago. Um, and the reason I say that is I have experience being part of women's network groups outside of Jabra. Hence when I started with this organization and found out there is a women's network program and like I want in, I want to be part of the conversation, you know, because I, I have started to find my voice, you know, and I want it to be able to share that with my colleagues. With that, what's also very important to me and what I like to try to inject in all of our advisory and uh, conversations and even outside of that is diversity and inclusion because change can't happen without inclusion. So it's really important that we have male voices speaking with us and on our behalf as we create these transformations.
Interviewee 3a (05:41):
Um, gosh, there's so much talk about, Barbara (05:47):
I feel actually that these, uh, this needed male voice. Is that currently the case for the job or women's network or is there any work being done to make that the case? What is your point of view on that?
Interviewee 3a (05:57):
I think there needs to be more of that happening. I know our CEO is very supportive of this, which is wonderful. Um, but I think we need to see more of our executive leadership team taking more of a stance and I'm sure they are having this conversations like, um, you know, we have males on our advisory board, which is great. Um,
Interviewee 3a (06:34):
But I think you hear their voice more to be very honest. We have had blogs written by males, which is great.
Their perspective, you know, in support of, uh, women, what they see in their households, how they bring that into, um, into the workforce. You know, how they would like that to influence their, their, you know, female children as they grow, as they get into their careers. But like having more of an active role, would be nice.
Marc (07:18):
Like putting words into action or something like that?
Interviewee 3a (07:19):
Yes. Um, maybe Hey, maybe volunteer to be a webinar speaker, maybe ascertain webinars, speakers, like other males who feel the same way as them kind of things of that nature.
Marc (07:38):
Kind of like, like right now we are pretty much like early in the year and now whatwith our thesis here we kind of have to figure out exactly what we need to write about. Like my question is kind of like to you if you had to like you say, uh, investigate something or do a research about Jabras women's network, uh, something
Page 153 of 282 that you would find interesting yourself and maybe something you would like to figure out. Do you have a few topics you would to choose to go to?
Interviewee 3a (08:16):
Um, yeah, I mean the whole, the whole, um, kind of road map of Interviewee 3a (08:27):
supporting women and within our organization, how it differs from region to region. I would like to use, understand and see that better. I've only heard snippets, but I would like to understand how does, you know, immediate differ from, from North America, you know? And what about Asia versus EMEA or South America?
You know what I mean? I mean there's so many nuances because culture brings such a big thing and you this whole entire topic, right? .
Barbara (09:03):
And as of now there isn't, is there not the, or let's say a strategy or a globally aligned goal for the network of, or is this just my interpretation from what I hear?
Interviewee 3a (09:17):
I think we talk about it but I don't see a threaded strategy across the program. So we do, you know, there are nuances and you know, the leaders for each region might do things a little differently to support their regions.
But I think that if we start, um, um, maybe cross communicating like what if a North American speaker goes into Asia, understands their culture a little more and, and talks about those nuances. Could that perhaps help the, you know, the Asian?
Marc (10:03):
Yeah, yeah. Fine. Yeah.
Interviewee 3a (10:05):
Right. Yeah. A little differently. Push a little harder, you know, with grace of course, you know? Yeah. Right.
And within their limitations because they do things differently culturally, but that ideation starts to accommodate and the conversation starts to change a little bit. Right?
Marc (10:28):
Yeah. Yeah. We can, can you also can, could you say that there, there's perhaps different, um, maybe goals and different motivations for each region?
Interviewee 3a (10:42):
Absolutely, absolutely. Right? Because their needs are different.
Marc (10:47):
Yeah. The need for different like, yeah. So some divisions might turn or regions might turn to specific aspects of like women's rights or some specific aspects of, you know, creating support. What other regions might do something completely different. Right. Because these ethics have been fulfilled in that region. Yeah. Okay.
Interviewee 3a (11:10):