S
Sebastian 2:32
Can you start out by stating your name and age along with the position and the responsibilities you have?
O
Manager 1 2:41
Yeah. I am Oanh Henriksen. I am 40 years old, and I am in charge of Business at 3XN and I'm also a partner in the company. So what that means is that I'm in charge of all the strategic decisions of where we want to,
what market we want to grow and who we want to collaborate with and what types of projects we want to do.
So a lot of the stuff that goes in the front, before we actually start designing any buildings.
S
Sebastian 3:16
How long have you been a part of 3XN?
O
Manager 1 3:21
In June, it's seven years.
S
Sebastian 3:25
All right. So how do you see the role and the purpose of GXN within the architectural organization?
O
Manager 1 3:35
I think when we started GXN in 2007, we had some sort of idea that we want to do research in materials, but slowly it has evolved quite a bit. And I think at some point, hopefully, in the end, or maybe GXN will actually play a much bigger role than, I'm not saying than 3XN, but they definitely are growing in terms of the purpose of what they do is becoming more and more apparent that it's something that we need. And it's something that everybody needs that everybody should be doing. So I think their role will be definitely much bigger and so a lot more important in the future.
S
Sebastian 4:28
Why is there a need for a research lab?
O
Manager 1 4:31
I think, I think in nearly every company should have a research lab because I think it's really important, in no matter what you do, to prioritize the time and the money to take a step back and look at what you do and look to the future and see, are we doing what we supposed to do? Are we doing it the right way? Or where can we push our boundaries. So I think it doesn't matter if you're an architect or you're, you know, designer or producing a chair, I think it's always good to have something allocated, maybe not like a daughter company, but a group that actually reflects back on what you do. And in a way, I think it makes your business much better. So I think it's good that we have prioritized it, and I think a lot of people are doing it as well, but we should be doing it more.
S
Sebastian 5:36
What is the overarching aim of GXN O
Manager 1 5:43
The overarching aim is actually to push the sustainable agenda for the built environment. And that means, I think there's several ways you can do that you can do that in terms of upcycling like Lendager, you can do it in terms of how you draw in terms of making buildings more green, you can do that in many, many ways.
You can also do it in terms of cost, cost effectiveness. So, there are many way there are many ways to do that. And I think what GXN is trying to do is it tries to find what makes sense for 3XN, in the way that we work. But also they're also trying to push the boundary and maybe in some way also educate clients in making the right decision.
S
Sebastian 6:42
So, how do you perceive the interaction between research and practice in the field of architecture?
O
Manager 1 6:53
I think in our case, it's quite embedded. So it means when we start designing, we have person from GXN in the project group, so they are part of the team from the beginning. I'm not sure that's the case with a lot of other firms, because I think sometimes she would just treat it as like an add on. So I definitely think it should be something that you start from the beginning, which having everybody on the team. So it's a
multidisciplinary approach from the beginning. And that's the other way where you can actually prioritize it.
If you don't it's the thing you do in the end, you're like "oh, shit. We need to add something". And then you get someone to design like a strategy for that. But if it can definitely be something from the very beginning, even in the research.
S
Sebastian 7:51
Do you feel like GXN changes the practice of 3XN O
Manager 1 7:58
it does in many ways because it makes us focus a lot more on sustainability. So a lot of projects that we do now, we will never yes to it, if it doesn't have a sustainability, if it's unsustainable, let's say like that. If a client wants to design something, and we always come in with the eye, okay, this is make sense for us to do, will it be a sustainable building? Is it something that we will be proud of? That is a point of view that we take in every project now that we look into, okay, if it's something we know it's not sustainable socially, or economically or environmentally, then we say no. So it's definitely a way of moving things and reviewing them in the right way. And so that's one thing that has affected us quite a bit. And then in the outcome, obviously, we also try to make the delivery as sustainable as possible. So it has definitely affected the way we think, but also the way we approach our project and the way we vet our process.
S
Sebastian 9:09
So when, when GXN, they do research, how is the knowledge that is acquired through the research, how is that utilized in the organization?
O
Manager 1
9:23
It's utilized with the person that is involved in the project, is part of the project team. So we have one person from GXN that knows a lot about plans, and he'll be involved in the project. That knowledge is utilized directly into the project. But then a lot of the stuff that we do is also obviously when they do research, they share it among the rest of the team and then the architect could stop drawing will take that into consideration, obviously. There's a lot of knowledge transfer between the two firms. I think we could even do it much more than we do now. I think it is quite embedded in what we do. What I think is actually more important, in terms of knowledge sharing, is sharing it outside of the firm. GXN does a lot of lectures and they do a lot of
publications. They share it, but I think they could do that even more.
S
Sebastian 10:34
How is it handled internally, the sharing of the transfers the knowledge?
O
Manager 1 10:39
We have knowledge sharing session. So we have right now we have it online, but I think it's every month, every two weeks, there's a knowledge sharing. So there's always someone from GXN sharing like how do you do sustainability design or whatever? And then there's always some of 3XN sharing how do you do the best Rhino model? So we do have internally quite a bit of knowledge sharing in that sense. And then whatever GXN has done, they always share with the publications. And Kasper, he's director of GXN, and he's part of the management at 3XN as well. So that knowledge is also shared there. Um, so we do it, it's quite fluid. It's not like we have something that's very set, that we do that every month, and then they send out, you know. Every time that GXN has achieved something, they have a GXN list if you will, I'm part of the management so I'm part of that group. GXN, they're quite good at sharing internally as well. I think it's every, every month and then they just share the stuff that they do among themselves and then get shared to 3XNers as well, so.
S
Sebastian 12:02
Okay, so from that internal perspective, how can the individual architect benefit from the work from GXN do you think?
O
Manager 1 12:14
I think the architect actually need to sort of look forward. They also need to want it if you know what I mean? Like some architects might just want to be interested in drawing the floor plane or something like that.
But I also think that it's also up to the individual architect to actually look for the information and go over and ask GXN "Hey, what are you guys doing with you know, what are we doing with this?". So it goes both ways. So it's not just GXN having to share but I think the architect working on a project needs to also go and approach the people at GXN and ask for the information.
S
Sebastian 13:06
So it's an interrelated relationship between them. Does that mean that the architect is also directing the research happening at GXN?
O
Manager 1 13:20
So they have three legs: digital, circular and behavior and a spearheading each, for the digital it's Kåre. And you should probably talk to Susan who's, she's the one heading the behavior part.
S
Sebastian 13:36
We do already have a meeting with her schedules next week. Looking forward to that.
O
Manager 1 13:41
Yeah, so Susan, she's heading the behavior and then Lasse, he's heading the circular. And what I do for example, when I do like a proposal or approach a new project, and I know that it has research. I think the the sharing is quite fluid. We're not keeping any secrets, like everybody has access to see stuff if they need to.
S
Sebastian 14:09
Yeah. Do you think that there's a difference between the types of knowledge? You can argue that an architect's knowledge is quite practical when they do the work with the project, whereas if you have a PhD student, it might be very theoretical and on a academical high level. Do you think that creates problems?
O
Manager 1 14:37
No, I think in the end, I think that the goal is when someone has finished the PhD that they take the extract of it and then see what can we use it for. And I think, and we're actually really lucky because Camilla that's doing a PhD is actually an architect and Johan is also an architect. He's also doing PhD with ???. So a lot of the PhD students we have, they are actually already architects. So they have that practical sort of knowledge and still go into depth about it. But our PhD, I think the goal for out PhD and I don't know, maybe Kåre would say something different, but I do believe that when we apply for a PhD, we want to use that knowledge into our process into design and knowledge. So for example, when Mille, she was doing the behavioral, we took that knowledge and we created some design guidelines or design manual where you can sort of see okay, what's the optimal space for like an open floor, what space how many people is too many, that kind of thing. So that knowledge is becoming transferred into practical knowledge. So we can use that in a design.
S
Sebastian 16:03
Now that we're speaking about the challenges that appear in, in research and practice, we've mainly been talking about it internally. How do you perceive the external factors appearing and creating challenges in applying the research and knowledge that you, that you find out through research? If you have to apply that to practice. Do you feel like that there are any external elements that influence this process?
O
Manager 1 16:39
I think the only external elements into the project is actually the client. Because when we do a project, we try to implement the knowledge we have. But sometimes that's not possible because of the timeline. Or because the client will suddenly say "okay, we're not interested in this". It's just going to be more expensive, or, or somehow it's not possible because the project conditions was a little bit different. So I think the external element is actually whether the client actually wants it or not. Because sometimes we can add it in but then in the end, they take it out.
S
Sebastian 17:22
Do you feel like it changes if you have a private client or a public client?
O
Manager 1 17:29
I think it has changed quite a bit because I remember like, you know, five years ago, everybody, when we were talking about sustainability, the client would go like "What would the cost me like? Is it an extra fee?
Or will the billing be more expensive?" So that was a initial reply. Now, it's actually typically in the project brief that we want to achieve, you know, LEED Platinum, or some sort of certification. So the sustainability part has changed quite a bit. So it's now something that's required. So now it's like a need to have before it was nice to have. So that that has changed quite a bit. So we feel like it's making more and more sense now to have GXN because it's part of almost every project.
S
Sebastian 18:27
It's quite a broad topic, this one that I'm going into now. But do you have an idea of the relationship between knowledge, practice and business, in architecture? Do you feel like these three scopes that we explained, do they influence each other?
O
Manager 1 18:48
Oh, yeah. I definitely think the more in depth things you can add like research knowledge and facts, I definitely think that you'd become a better architect by having all these three. And then definitely think that you create better projects. And I also definitely think that if you can convince the client in investing in all of this, then you also get better clients, because I think for us, just back to what I said, like five years ago, the client would asked, "okay, how would it be more expensive for? Or what does it take?". Now they are asking more and more about it and for it. But I definitely think that the more we can apply that and the more we can show that it's actually a working distance, a way forward, the better the client could get because they also know what they should be asking for. So for them, it's also also to know "Okay, what what is it actually that I need? What is what is the right decisions". Because they might not even happen now that you make the decision. So I think it's definitely something that we should do a lot more because now we're doing an architecture, you know, 50 years ago, it was about aesthetic, it was about the craftsmanship, it was about creating the perfect brickwork, or creating the perfect light. Now, architecture is a lot about solving
problems, right? So that's why you need all these three. You can't solve problems without knowledge, or you
of the big issues we have with the social housing, people thing, okay, the reason it's the same type of people moving here, it's obviously the socio-economic factor, but it's also the architecture that is actually dictating how people are behaving. So I think, in the future we will need all these three because we have a lot of issues to deal within then the perfect brickwork.
S
Sebastian 21:17
Yeah. So moving from these three aspects into, Camilla actually said that she hates the word innovation but we think it's quite interesting to ask about how do you understand innovation in relation to the organization and the practice?
O
Manager 1 21:38
I understand what Camilla means and same with the word sustainability, people are like what does that even mean? And because innovation has been used so many times with something that you feel like, Oh, it's not innovative. But I do think it's still relevant because, at GXN we need to find a better word for innovation, but I do think that it is what we should be doing. When we do design, we should always look at what can we do that's a little bit different. So it's something that should be something that should definitely be driving our practice. I think if you ask another firm that are very much about doing the perfect brickwork, then you will probably be like a company like Lundgaard & Tranberg. They probably view innovation differently, like for them innovation, maybe in terms of the craftsmanship of the material. Whereas for us, innovation is more about changing our anthropology or changing the way we move in the building or making the material a little bit more, you know, upcycling materials, something like that. So innovation can mean a lot of things. I don't think it's an outdated word. I think it's a very relevant word, and very needed.
S
Sebastian 23:05
Yeah. I agree. Do you think that the perception of innovation change between the two entities 3XN and GXN? Or do they have the same understanding?
O
Manager 1 23:19
That's a good question. I think for 3XN, innovation will be where we can actually rethink a topology for example, I think the fish market is quite innovative, because we're rethinking the what is a fish market, what can we do with it and come up with different technologies and different ways and different things. For GXN, if you say the same project, the fish market, innovation will for them will be the elements of the building like, you know, that it's designed for disassembly, has flexibility in it and then there's like, you know, the roof. So for GXN it's most more about the solutions that we have designed to push the sustainability in the building, whereas with 3XN I think sustainability, it's more the broader sense of, you know, what type of building is it? How do people move? So, you know, we look at it, maybe from a bigger picture. Whereas, GXN look at sustainability more in terms of the individual design solutions or individual, you know, sustainability systems that we have implemented.
S
Sebastian 24:35
So what do you think is influencing the development of innovation in the architecture industry?
O
Manager 1 24:43
I think that digital technology or you know, AI, as you guys are interested in, I think that will influence quite a bit. And, I think also now with all this digital technology, how people behave, and how people interact, I think that it was influenced quite a bit as well. Yeah, and I think I think now because we have this virus and we're suddenly we can't stand two meters close to each other, I think all of this will go into the thinking. And, you know, five years ago, it was about you know, terror, you know, ensuring that you can't do any terrorist attacks. So, whatever happens in society will influence.
P Paul 25:36
In relation to innovation, what is the place of knowledge within the organization and in relation to innovation.
O
Manager 1 26:16
Knowledge is something that we always try to obviously gain through the research method, and then we use that knowledge to do innovative projects. So we don't do the research for the sake of research, because we do it to innovate, essentially. So I think you can only innovate if you have a knowledge to say, Okay, what is, what is the problem that we are solving here? what are the challenges? And then we find through research, different solutions, and then we create innovative solutions. So they're sort of linked.
S
Sebastian 26:59
You were mentioning some macro factors if we can call them that, that influence the development of innovation. You were talking a bit about, about the societal context and the cultural context, do you feel like that there are some elements that diminishes the development of innovation, that holds back innovation from happening?
O
Manager 1 27:24
I definitely think some societies are more open to it than others. It really surprises me for some when you go to Germany, they're way behind in terms of designing everything in 3D. And if you go to the US, it's not you know, a requirement that you can open the window or you have to have a view or daylight. There are a lot of society where I think we in Denmark, because it's dark, it's cold, it's windy, we try to solve some of these issues through our buildings. And I think in different society, it's a different story, because when you go into different countries, they have different requirements. And then that actually makes it a little bit challenging sometimes to actually do what we do. But once we actually manage to say to the client, okay, we need to have everybody to be able to open the window, everybody should have daylight. And they are open to that then yes, but I think we will be very challenged. I think it's difficult for us to work in Saudi Arabia, because their society is different. And I think we would wouldn't be able to design you know, a building where when you're a woman, you can only walk here and you're mean you can do this. There's a lot of a lot of the society